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Old 10/10/2016, 06:37 PM   #26
Fitz19d
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Originally Posted by microlady View Post
I went 72 days the first time and 90 the second. Fallow periods work well for knocking down the virulence of the parasite, but in my experience it doesn't eliminate them. I am really sick to my stomach when I think about all that I've went through the past year. All of my fish went through TTM a few times. I don't touch copper.

Two of my dwarf Angels show a few spots and my tang scratches sometimes. So far it doesn't seem too bad. Only time will tell.

Good luck.
I would suspect your TTM may have failed if anything. Fudged the hours a little too long or too close to the edge. Had the QT tanks right next to each other so infected water splashed into the other. Equipment that had a few drops etc used in both etc


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Old 10/10/2016, 06:52 PM   #27
Dmorty217
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Fallow periods are unreliable, simple as that. There are reports of Ich coming back in reef tanks after being fallow for 90+days.


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Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old 10/10/2016, 06:57 PM   #28
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I would suspect your TTM may have failed if anything. Fudged the hours a little too long or too close to the edge. Had the QT tanks right next to each other so infected water splashed into the other. Equipment that had a few drops etc used in both etc
Not a chance. I'm meticulous.


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Old 10/10/2016, 07:27 PM   #29
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Not a chance. I'm meticulous.
Everyone is always quick to try and point out what you did to cause the fallow period to fail... no one ever thinks, huh maybe Ich strain(s) can live longer than 72 days without a host


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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old 10/10/2016, 08:02 PM   #30
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Everyone is always quick to try and point out what you did to cause the fallow period to fail... no one ever thinks, huh maybe Ich strain(s) can live longer than 72 days without a host
Yes, I agree. I am not perfect, but having been a microbiologist for many years means I'm serious about biosecurity. TTM is pretty foolproof and someone would have to be pretty negligent to screw it up.

No spots are on the angels today, but I swear there were some a couple of days ago. Maybe it's not ich and they have those creepy monogean skin flukes that ThRoewer is always mentioning. Whatever it is slipped through formalin baths, TTM, Prazi, and two long fallow periods. All fish are eating and doing well, but I'd bet that ich is still lurking and it always will be in that tank. No more tangs or angels for me just in case. Thank goodness I'm pretty certain that losses to velvet or Brook are behind me due to a sound quarantine protocol.


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Old 10/10/2016, 09:32 PM   #31
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Everyone is always quick to try and point out what you did to cause the fallow period to fail... no one ever thinks, huh maybe Ich strain(s) can live longer than 72 days without a host
I've pointed that out again and again.
The 72 days go back to one single observation in one single study.
Based on such flimsy data (just one data point actually) it's quite a stretch to take this as the absolute max.


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Old 10/10/2016, 09:51 PM   #32
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Yes, I agree. I am not perfect, but having been a microbiologist for many years means I'm serious about biosecurity. TTM is pretty foolproof and someone would have to be pretty negligent to screw it up.

No spots are on the angels today, but I swear there were some a couple of days ago. Maybe it's not ich and they have those creepy monogean skin flukes that ThRoewer is always mentioning. Whatever it is slipped through formalin baths, TTM, Prazi, and two long fallow periods. All fish are eating and doing well, but I'd bet that ich is still lurking and it always will be in that tank. No more tangs or angels for me just in case. Thank goodness I'm pretty certain that losses to velvet or Brook are behind me due to a sound quarantine protocol.
When in doubt, put an infected fish under the microscope. Monogenean are fairly easy to distinguish from Cryptocaryon under the microscope.

Here is a good article on Monogeneans: http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/2013...es-of-Fish.pdf


Image Source: http://chucksaddiction.thefishestate.net/disease.html


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3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/11/2016, 02:30 AM   #33
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This thread has really bummed me out. I thought 90 days gave me 100 percent no chance of ich in the system.


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Old 10/11/2016, 07:04 AM   #34
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This thread has really bummed me out. I thought 90 days gave me 100 percent no chance of ich in the system.
I added a frag that sat 9 months fallow and I got Ich in my DT... Most say the CP must of failed, I say no way. ThRoewer, you do say that but your in the minority


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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old 10/11/2016, 11:57 AM   #35
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Now I'm wonder g what the point was for spending 200 dollars on a qt set up


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Old 10/11/2016, 12:31 PM   #36
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Now I'm wonder g what the point was for spending 200 dollars on a qt set up
Because there are far more dangerous parasites and pathogens than Cryptocaryon: Amyloodinium ocellatum, Brooklynella hostilis, Uronema marinum, the thousands of Monogenean ("Flukes") species, Mycobacteria, Vibrio, Iridoviruses, internal fungi like Ichthyosporidium hoferi,... just to name a few...

Cryptocaryon is really not that of a big deal - and if it is you may be doing something wrong.


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3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/11/2016, 12:58 PM   #37
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Well whatever I had wiped out my whole tank except a goby and mandarin. Could have been velvet. Anyone know the fallow period for velvet?



Last edited by danrobberg; 10/11/2016 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Autocorrected goby to font
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Old 10/11/2016, 01:36 PM   #38
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Well whatever I had wiped out my whole tank except a font and mandarin. Could have been velvet. Anyone know the fallow period for velvet?
6 weeks


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Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs
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Old 10/11/2016, 08:23 PM   #39
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Because there are far more dangerous parasites and pathogens than Cryptocaryon: Amyloodinium ocellatum, Brooklynella hostilis, Uronema marinum, the thousands of Monogenean ("Flukes") species, Mycobacteria, Vibrio, Iridoviruses, internal fungi like Ichthyosporidium hoferi,... just to name a few...

Cryptocaryon is really not that of a big deal - and if it is you may be doing something wrong.
I agree 100%. Quarantine tanks are a must in this hobby. But I'm just so darn mad that crypto might have outsmarted me again. I don't see any spots today but I pray the tank isn't a ticking time bomb. I'm doing everything possible to keep water quality immaculate, and feeding a wide variety of Selcon soaked foods along with Nori.


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Old 10/11/2016, 08:28 PM   #40
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Luckily I don't think I have those skin monogeneans. They look awful! I'm a bit nervous to put a live fish under the microscope and I don't see how that would work with our compound Nikon ones at work, but I could do a skin and gill scrape.


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Old 10/12/2016, 04:22 PM   #41
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Unfortunately there are smaller ones than those in the pictures above. The ones my ventralis had looked like ich with the naked eye or just a magnifying glass. Only under the microscope with the fish in freshwater you would see them move around and scramble for cover.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/12/2016, 04:28 PM   #42
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Great. lol

Symptoms of these things? Are they deadly? What do you do if they are in the display? Will cleaner shrimp help? I've noticed the dwarf angels like to be cleaned.


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Old 10/12/2016, 04:39 PM   #43
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My ventralis looked OK one day, behaved a bit funny the next day and were dead the morning after. So yes, they can kill quite quickly when the infection reaches a certain level.

Symptoms where like ich, which is why I made the mistake to wait with treatment too long.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 10/20/2016, 10:37 AM   #44
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6 weeks
I tried 3 weeks and that definitely did not work for Marine Velvet. This is my first time dealing with MV, and it is terrible.

Unlike ich I hope 6 weeks is long enough but i'm going to wait till the new year. Nothing worst than seeing all your fish perish before your eyes and nothing you can do about it.

If only we could find a simple cure for all these parasites, all the fish we could save......


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Old 10/20/2016, 06:33 PM   #45
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Studies going back to 1992... fast forward 20+ years and you'd think we would have more conclusive data.

Aside from natural reefs going downhill, i think the majority of beginners become discouraged to entertain this hobby after their first ich outbreak. When they find out, they need more equipment, tanks, practically a lab environment just to cure the $27 fish, they just take the loss and find another hobby.


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Originally Posted by Gogandantess

"I'm totally frustrated by this disease. My display has been fallow for 2 months now. If ich happened to mysteriously appear again, I'm giving up and going back to African Cichilds."
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Old 12/07/2018, 09:07 AM   #46
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I know this is an old thread but the quarantine periods mentioned in the thread are completely useless without constantly treating with copper or chloroquine phosphate the entire time they are in the QT tank. This fact seems to have been lost on the people discussing qt period lengths. Putting infected fish in qt and not treating them will just mean they remain infected. So when you have kileld it off in the display tank by leaving it fallow you are just reintroducing it back in removing the fish from qt.


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Old 12/07/2018, 09:45 AM   #47
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OP already mentioned he was doing TTM for the fish.


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Originally Posted by Gogandantess

"I'm totally frustrated by this disease. My display has been fallow for 2 months now. If ich happened to mysteriously appear again, I'm giving up and going back to African Cichilds."
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