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Old 04/19/2018, 04:41 AM   #1
zaireguy
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302 scrubber or clear water scrubber

Hello

I am looking at one of thes scrubber either the 302 aquatice or the clear water from brs.any advice on which one would be better
I have a 300 main disay with a 40 gallon sump and another 40 gallon sump to hold skimmer heater apex phrobes
Now i have gotten some hair algea in main tank and phosphate test 0
Heard great things about the scrubbers going to try the pro reseins next on my ro water to help insure water is best it can be


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Current Tank Info: 300 gallon main tank,70 Gallon sump,70 gallon remote sump, reef octopus 300- 12 inch skimmer, skimz Biopellet reactor
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Old 04/20/2018, 01:00 AM   #2
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Pro resins, saw that video by BRS. Honestly as of recently, I wouldn't trust squat BRS has to say. They are a company that sells to the reefing community, and as of late they are pushing the gimmick meter to the limit.

Pro line of DI resin, like seriously? What is so pro about it over the regular DI esin that you've been selling for years? Also this new Pharma pouches for bulk chemicals that aren't even bulk anymore and cost twice as much as they used to, and more then likely are the same exact product they used to sell but in a fancy package now.

Yup BRS has become like any other LFS....... Believe me or not, but do some research yourself and you'll see what I'm ranting about.


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80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

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Old 04/20/2018, 04:35 AM   #3
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Thanks for the info always willing to learn


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have you been touched by a angel? My life was for ever changed when my daughter was born

my wife and I have come to a new understanding! I don`t ask and she doesn`t have to say no anymore

Current Tank Info: 300 gallon main tank,70 Gallon sump,70 gallon remote sump, reef octopus 300- 12 inch skimmer, skimz Biopellet reactor
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Old 04/20/2018, 09:40 AM   #4
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If you are patient, shoot user Floyd R Turbo a PM. Get on his waiting list for one of his Turbo’s Aquatics algae scrubbers. I’m fortunate enough to own one of his L2 R4 scrubbers that I will be setting up on my new build. There is no better ATS on the market right now IMO. His scrubbers feature custom dimmable LEDs (which is a huge benefit for dialing in growth IMO), a tunable output pipe, a removable growth chamber for ease of cleaning and a light shielded skirted slot pipe for unimpeded water flow as the algae grows. He offers multiple sizes for differest sized tanks.




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Old 04/21/2018, 03:43 PM   #5
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Looks nice! Thanks for the video


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Old 04/22/2018, 02:56 AM   #6
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While I appreciate Floyd's advancements in ATS's, I find his scrubbers to be a little expensive. But then again, what isn't in this hobby?

I made pretty much the exact same thing as one of his scrubbers for less then 100$.

You can also get by with just a slot pipe, a screen, and a hang on clamp lamp. Less then 50$.

But if your into fancy shmansy, and willing to part with extra cash, then by all means Floyd makes top notch scrubbers. Probably one of the best manufactured ones in production.

WOW 419$ for the L2 and without a pump! Theres really less then 100$ in parts there. Can anyone say profit margin?

Sorry I'm just so cynical this morning, I love Floyd and what he has done for scrubbers. He also helps out anyone with a question on either how to make one, or what the issues with one you made might be. I just find the pricing for his scrubbers to be less then ideal and raping his customers.


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Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
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Old 04/22/2018, 04:20 AM   #7
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While I agree that his scrubbers are on the high end in both features and pricing. I will say that characterizing his products as a collection of less than $100 in parts is grossly misinformed and unfair. A closer look at his scrubbers reveal all custom injected ABS molded parts. In the world of manufacturing, the tooling required to produce small batch injection molded ABS parts is far from a cheap endeavor. His interlocking finned heatsinks, dimmable LED arrays and his LED driverboards, which are also Apex compatible BTW, are all custom fabricated. Look at his scrubbers from soup to nuts and you won’t find any off the shelf parts. Each component is custom made and purpose built, specifically for his scrubbers.

Now take a look at Clearwater or 302 Aquatics scrubbers for comparison. They are essentially a fabricated acrylic box with off the shelf bolt on LED fixtures (that you can find on eBay or Amazon) and standard schedule 40 or 80 pvc parts. Worlds apart from a Turbo’s Aquatics L Series Revision 4 scrubber by comparison.


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Old 04/22/2018, 04:56 AM   #8
homer1475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LQT View Post
While I agree that his scrubbers are on the high end in both features and pricing. I will say that characterizing his products as a collection of less than $100 in parts is grossly misinformed and unfair. A closer look at his scrubbers reveal all custom injected ABS molded parts. In the world of manufacturing, the tooling required to produce small batch injection molded ABS parts is far from a cheap endeavor. His interlocking finned heatsinks, dimmable LED arrays and his LED driverboards, which are also Apex compatible BTW, are all custom fabricated. Look at his scrubbers from soup to nuts and you won’t find any off the shelf parts. Each component is custom made and purpose built, specifically for his scrubbers.

Now take a look at Clearwater or 302 Aquatics scrubbers for comparison. They are essentially a fabricated acrylic box with off the shelf bolt on LED fixtures (that you can find on eBay or Amazon) and standard schedule 40 or 80 pvc parts. Worlds apart from a Turbo’s Aquatics L Series Revision 4 scrubber by comparison.
Totally agree with you here. Like I said after I posted though(edited post), I'm feeling a bit cynical this morning.

I wouldn't give 302 5$ for one of their scrubbers. Floyd on the other hand.... If I wasn't DIY handy, I would have easily fork over the 400$ for one of his units(actually considered this before I realized how easy to DIY one was).

Again, Floyd is a great guy and helps in the scrubbers thread whenever possible(actually think he started it?), and whatever question. Whether it be acrylic fabrication, scrubber details, problems with existing scrubbers, what lights, etc. Every question typically answered with proper info.He actually gives back to the community instead of just trying to sell us his product... 302 on the other hand is just there for the profit margin.


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80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
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Old 04/22/2018, 05:02 AM   #9
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I’m not gonna lie... I was super fortunate and was able to score a pristine Turbo’s L2 R4 ATS off the ReefCentral classifieds for an absolute steal... no waitlist either!


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Old 04/22/2018, 05:22 AM   #10
homer1475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LQT View Post
Iím not gonna lie... I was super fortunate and was able to score a pristine Turboís L2 R4 ATS off the ReefCentral classifieds for an absolute steal... no waitlist either!

Think I know the one you bought, I was eyeing it myself, then when it sold is when I decided to DIY one myself.


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80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
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Old 04/22/2018, 09:06 AM   #11
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Great info i have been talking to floyd great guy!!!just have to get the boss on board


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have you been touched by a angel? My life was for ever changed when my daughter was born

my wife and I have come to a new understanding! I don`t ask and she doesn`t have to say no anymore

Current Tank Info: 300 gallon main tank,70 Gallon sump,70 gallon remote sump, reef octopus 300- 12 inch skimmer, skimz Biopellet reactor
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Old 05/05/2018, 08:58 AM   #12
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Another option is the route I went.. I DIYed an upflow ats.. and it has worked wonders in my system.. 20 for the light on amizon.. some spare 1/4 air tubing.. 3 bucks for the screen and an old tote lid and zip ties and a cardboard box with tin foil reflector lol

Sorry for the one sideways picture

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Old 05/05/2018, 09:01 AM   #13
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I got the upflow idea from SantaMonica on this forum...

I'd like to buy one of the scrubbers offered by SantaMonica and or floyd... just can't afford one

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Old 08/04/2018, 12:16 PM   #14
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My Two Cents

Hi There,



So I had a buddy of mine recently had a terrible experience with the CW scrubber that nearly burnt his house down. The main issue, and I hope that CW addresses this, is that it leaks from the sides because the mesh screen is too wide for the unit, the GPH needed to power the unit is a lot higher because they use a slotted screen, and there is nothing that seals the sides.


So when the screen grows algae(And you will because all scrubbers will grow a crap ton of it), the algae will clog up the side of the slot and cause water to spill out :-/. There is no bulkhead to prevent the leak --- it's just all bad. If you don't believe me, you need to check out his podcast where he breaks down what happened:



https://reefnewsnetwork.com/keeprollin/



See around the 52:15 mark.



Of the two of them, this leak issue alone makes the 302 Aquatics model the way to go if you are comparing them. I do think that Turbo's model is the top of the line when it comes to scrubbers, but his units are very expensive in comparison so it's not really apples to oranges.



The $40 light blockers that CW sells are also a bit silly. They should just put vinyl tape or paint the clear acrylic with Krylon and that would fix the light bleed issue.



There is also a variant I see sold here which has a round acrylic corners. It's actually a bit cheaper than the CW models.



https://aquariumstoredepot.com/produ...turf-scrubbers



The rain scrubbers are no joke as well. The Rain has the smallest footprint if you are short on space and I think one of their models comes with the stand now. They all really have their fit for your needs, but until CW clears up that leak issue I would stay away from them. I'm sure they will figure it out soon.



I also agree on BRS pitching grimmicks lately. There was a recent post on their Q&A for the CW scrubbers where their admin said that ATS cannot grow pods. You gotta be kidding me!



And I Quote:



Hey there,



That's a great question! While algae turf scrubbers may not be specifically called out as part of the Triton method, they serve a more or less identical goal of controlling dissolved organic wastes through the use of algae to uptake these by-products. I can't see any reason running the Triton method would prevent you from using one of these. Of course, you wouldn't get the other benefits of a refugium such as a copepod sanctuary, but when it comes to keeping organics very low, these are a great solution! ...


I would be ****ed at that quote if I was CW. ATS have been known for growing pods for ages

Video proof below:

https://youtu.be/0zjbKiZF2dc


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Old 08/04/2018, 10:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homer1475 View Post
While I appreciate Floyd's advancements in ATS's, I find his scrubbers to be a little expensive. But then again, what isn't in this hobby?

I made pretty much the exact same thing as one of his scrubbers for less then 100$.

You can also get by with just a slot pipe, a screen, and a hang on clamp lamp. Less then 50$.

But if your into fancy shmansy, and willing to part with extra cash, then by all means Floyd makes top notch scrubbers. Probably one of the best manufactured ones in production.

WOW 419$ for the L2 and without a pump! Theres really less then 100$ in parts there. Can anyone say profit margin?

Sorry I'm just so cynical this morning, I love Floyd and what he has done for scrubbers. He also helps out anyone with a question on either how to make one, or what the issues with one you made might be. I just find the pricing for his scrubbers to be less then ideal and raping his customers.
At only 4x bill of materials he's probably taking a loss or maybe breaking even if the labor cost is low. Most companies run greater than 5x the BOM cost unless there is some other revenue stream to offset it. Things like cabinetry that require a lot of labor, start around 8x BOM.


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Old 08/10/2018, 02:47 AM   #16
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Scrubbers do not need to be that complicated. Just hang some rugged up mesh in you overflow, or the weir of your sump or even horazantly just below the surface in your sump. Add an inexpensive red and blue LED grow light and watch the algae grow.
On my 300 gallon reef I do dose 10 ml of iron a day to help the algae grow and uptake phosphate. With the above scrubbers I can strip all the nutrients out of my system if I light them for too long. I adjust my light schedule to get the nutrients where I want them.


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Old 08/11/2018, 02:36 AM   #17
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I would just skip the whole agae scrubber idea. Keep it simple with a skimmer and some chaeto in a fuge area.


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Old 08/11/2018, 03:13 PM   #18
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An ATS is way more efficient at nutrient control. I have a traditional sump with cheato and it just not handle the load the ATS does.


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Old 08/13/2018, 06:52 PM   #19
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Lot of great info guys


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have you been touched by a angel? My life was for ever changed when my daughter was born

my wife and I have come to a new understanding! I don`t ask and she doesn`t have to say no anymore

Current Tank Info: 300 gallon main tank,70 Gallon sump,70 gallon remote sump, reef octopus 300- 12 inch skimmer, skimz Biopellet reactor
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Old 08/13/2018, 08:34 PM   #20
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Oh by the way, a Turbo’s Aquatics L4 ATS is in the classifieds for a great price...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2680698


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Old 08/27/2018, 11:06 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by homer1475 View Post
Pro resins, saw that video by BRS. Honestly as of recently, I wouldn't trust squat BRS has to say. They are a company that sells to the reefing community, and as of late they are pushing the gimmick meter to the limit.

Pro line of DI resin, like seriously? What is so pro about it over the regular DI esin that you've been selling for years? Also this new Pharma pouches for bulk chemicals that aren't even bulk anymore and cost twice as much as they used to, and more then likely are the same exact product they used to sell but in a fancy package now.

Yup BRS has become like any other LFS....... Believe me or not, but do some research yourself and you'll see what I'm ranting about.
Iíll take it a step further and say that offering pharm grade compounds, and pricing them as such, has exactly what benefit for reef tanks? Impurity levels in food grade compounds are incredibly low and, well...letís face it, the #1 impurity in most compounds is H2O. People see Ďimpurityí and their brains go right to Ďtoxiní. Impurity in CaCl, for instance, just means something that isnít CaCl. Most likely whatever that happens to be is inert (for reef purposes). And, since a reef is a far cry from a flask in a lab, those couple % of non CaCl is meaningless.

Further, if there does happen to be something like Al that sneaks in there, it is in the most negligible quantity and will be removed by something like a resin.

Off the top of my head, I can think of 100 other far more pressing issues/threats to coral health than some random ion that probably isnít in any sort of concentration capable of even hitting the radar.


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Old 08/28/2018, 05:09 AM   #22
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Sorry to hear about the melted power strip in that sump, caused by back-dripping from a clogged slot. That design constraint was figured out ten years ago, and just needs a washer or similar placed on the pipe. I'm surprised someone is offering it otherwise. After all, if someone is going to copy my original design from the year 2008, then all the improvements should be copied too. It's probably in this thread somewhere:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1424843

The safety aspect of scrubbers is becoming a major concern, because of the use of the ultra low cost metal bolt-on lights. Even without dripping down the hose like happened in that sump, the lights used by some DIY and some pre-built makers is causing an electrocution risk, in my opinion. I'm doing a safety checklist article about this, and will be posting it soon.

It's these types of problems that motivated us to stop making that original water design we invented in 2008, and to stop using those lights we first tested in 2010, and to incorporate all the fixes into the Rain.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
when it comes to keeping organics very low, these are a great solution
Scrubbers of course do no remove organics at all. Instead they put organics into the water: Amino acids, carbs, glucose, Vitamin C, etc. All the stuff corals like. And the reason corals like them is because corals developed in the oceans, which are controlled by algae.


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