Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Sponsor Forums > Reef Breeders LEDs
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

 
Thread Tools
Old 03/30/2018, 03:20 PM   #1
Tripod1404
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,737
Suggestion for additional PAR readings for individual channels.

Logan,

On reefbreeders store page, PAR readings when all channels are at 100% is given. But every few of us run the lights with all channels at equal intensities, or at 100%. What I am trying to determine is the approximate PAR readings for each channel on their own. In other words, PAR readings when one channel is at 100% and all other are at zero. For example CH3 at 100% while CH1,2,4,5,6 at 0%. I was going to do these measurements on my own but somehow my PAR meter leaked water into the sensor and now the readings it is giving are all over the place.

Doing these measurements would have allowed me and others to approximate PAR readings of custom settings. So, without changing my light settings, I would have been able to calculate the approximate PAR I would get. For example I were to run my lights at 7, 7, 30, 7, 30, 30 for channels in 1 to 6 order. Knowing the PAR of each channel alone at 100%, I could calculate approximate total PAR of my settings by multiplying the PAR at 100% with the percentage at which I am running the lights at, like PAR at 100% for CH3 x 0.3 to would give PAR at 30% power. If I repeat this for all channels and sum up the results, it would give total PAR, assuming PAR at each channel is additive.

One thing, I am not sure is if relationship between PAR and percent power on the LEDs is linear or not. So I am not sure running lights at 25% would be equal to the 25% of the PAR at 100%. Relationship might very well be nonlinear.

So it would be better if there were multiple points for each channel, like maybe 5%, 50% and 100%. This way we can draw a PAR vs % power graph and pinpoint the approximate PAR reading on each channel using this graph.

Logan, I was wondering if this is something you guys can possibly do? It would be a nice job for an intern

I know it sounds like a lot of work but it is actually simple and straightforward. If measurements were to done at 5%, 50% and 100% for each 6 channel, it would make 18 measurements for one location. Say measurements are done at 10-15 different locations at various depths, towards the sides, etc. In total, this will make 180-270 total measurements. For a single location, the measurement is merely placing the PAR sensor and changing the light intensities and/or channels and recording the results. And after that location is done, it is just moving to the next spot and repeating it. I doubt this will take longer than 1week to do. If you assume on average it takes 2 mins to take the PAR value (which I think would take be much less), 270 measurements would take about 9 hours to complete.



Last edited by Tripod1404; 03/30/2018 at 03:31 PM.
Tripod1404 is online now  
Old 03/30/2018, 05:46 PM   #2
Reef_Breeders
Sponsor
 
Reef_Breeders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,878
Hi,

I think that's a pretty good idea!

I don't think we need to do all those measurements- we could simply take PAR measurements at one location, and do as you suggested. From that, we could estimate the PAR output by calculating it based on the power output of each channel, and how much that channel contributes to the total PAR values.

It would be a complete estimate- but should prove a fairly useable baseline. I can work up an excel spreadsheet or interactive graphic, where if you input the percentage of each channel, it spits out estimated PAR values for each position in the tank.

The only issue I see with that is once you do this in a reef tank, your water flow, rockscape, sand color, etc. will effect those numbers.So will the height of your light over the water. Measurements like you suggest offer a good baseline, but can't replace borrowing a PAR meter to see where your tank is at.


Reef_Breeders is offline  
Old 03/30/2018, 07:03 PM   #3
Tripod1404
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reef_Breeders View Post
Hi,

I think that's a pretty good idea!

I don't think we need to do all those measurements- we could simply take PAR measurements at one location, and do as you suggested. From that, we could estimate the PAR output by calculating it based on the power output of each channel, and how much that channel contributes to the total PAR values.

It would be a complete estimate- but should prove a fairly useable baseline. I can work up an excel spreadsheet or interactive graphic, where if you input the percentage of each channel, it spits out estimated PAR values for each position in the tank.

The only issue I see with that is once you do this in a reef tank, your water flow, rockscape, sand color, etc. will effect those numbers.So will the height of your light over the water. Measurements like you suggest offer a good baseline, but can't replace borrowing a PAR meter to see where your tank is at.
Great! If you dont need that many measurements to estimate this, it is even better.

I agree that this will not be as precise as an actual PAR meter or replace it but act more like a tool that can be used give a good starting point. A PAR meter then can be use to fine-tune the actual values. It will be much better than starting completely blind. Plus it will allow us to get PAR estimates on other peoples settings. So often people say things "I run this channel at this much and this one at this much..." and show their growth, colors, etc. Using a tool like this, we can at least have an idea about how much PAR they, more or less, get. Or if I wanted to use their settings but say, 25% lower at each channel, or if I wanted more blue and less red, I would again have an estimate on PAR. Plus for people who use a 12H daylight cycle, i will give an estimate about how much PAR is being put into the tank at each daytime point. In the end most corals have a pretty wide PAR range that they can tolerate, the tool will allow us to at least allow the upper and lower extremes.

I think it might also be a deciding factor for someone who is on the market for a new light since they will at least have a good estimate about how much PAR they can get at their desired setting.


Keep us posted! I think an excel spread sheet or an interactive graphic would be awesome. You might even put it as an interactive tool on your website.


Tripod1404 is online now  
Old 04/07/2018, 11:26 AM   #4
JTL
Registered Member
 
JTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Venice Island, FL
Posts: 2,541
Logan, how are you coming on this project. It would really be helpful.


__________________
John

100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.
JTL is offline  
Old 04/09/2018, 10:40 AM   #5
Tripod1404
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTL View Post
Logan, how are you coming on this project. It would really be helpful.
Lol I am also eagerly waiting for it. I am checking this thread almost daily. Good to know I am not the only one


Tripod1404 is online now  
Old 05/04/2018, 08:03 AM   #6
nightOwl
Premium Member
 
nightOwl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,663
Looking forward to this as well...


__________________
To check out my pictures of my tank and trips just click on my name and visit my homepage.
nightOwl is offline  
Old 05/05/2018, 03:38 PM   #7
Reef_Breeders
Sponsor
 
Reef_Breeders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod1404 View Post
Lol I am also eagerly waiting for it. I am checking this thread almost daily. Good to know I am not the only one
I haven't gotten to this quite yet- we are out of stock on most lights. I will try to get on this this week once our shipment comes in.


Reef_Breeders is offline  
Old 05/05/2018, 04:24 PM   #8
Tripod1404
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reef_Breeders View Post
I haven't gotten to this quite yet- we are out of stock on most lights. I will try to get on this this week once our shipment comes in.
Thanks for the heads up!


Tripod1404 is online now  
Old 05/12/2018, 12:55 PM   #9
Reef_Breeders
Sponsor
 
Reef_Breeders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,878
I have a tester spreadsheet ready, PM me your email and I will send it your way.

Currently it will work for the 16/32 V2, and I will get the 24/48/50 done once we have more 24s in.

The way the spreadsheet works now, is if you take the current values you have programmed, it calculates the PAR values for each position in our PAR chart (see below) based on what you program for each channel.

To do this, we mounted a light 10" above a table, and secured a PAR meter directly under the center of the light. We accounted for ambient light, then took a baseline reading of the light at 100% on all 6 channels. We then went down the light and took PAR readings for each channel at 100% individually.

Those readings were used to created a % contribution for each channel, ie the red channel accounts for about 3.5% of total PAR. We then took those numbers, and created a "Power Factor" multiple based on the sum of all 6 channels. Ie, CH1= 3.5% x .5, + CH2= 2.5% x .3, etc. The maximum "Power Factor" is 1.0, meaning all channels are on at 100%.

Our formula determines the Power Factor based on what each channel is set to, then assigns the PAR values based on that.

We still have more formatting to do to make the spreadsheet look nice and make it impossible to mess up (ie lock certain cells, mark editable cells with "edit here" and add instructions).

If you are interested in testing it out, feel free to PM us your email, edit as you please as we are always open to suggestions.




Reef_Breeders is offline  
Old 05/14/2018, 01:11 PM   #10
Reef_Breeders
Sponsor
 
Reef_Breeders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,878
Here's a drop box link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0aihu161k5...ator.xlsx?dl=0


Reef_Breeders is offline  
Old 05/14/2018, 01:22 PM   #11
Tripod1404
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reef_Breeders View Post
Hey Logan, thanks for this spreadsheet, it looks great and it is really helpfull. Do you still want me to pm the email or is this the same thing?


Tripod1404 is online now  
Old 05/14/2018, 01:24 PM   #12
Reef_Breeders
Sponsor
 
Reef_Breeders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,878
It's the same! Just made it easier to view by uploading it publicly


Reef_Breeders is offline  
Old 05/14/2018, 01:37 PM   #13
JTL
Registered Member
 
JTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Venice Island, FL
Posts: 2,541
Can I use this for the 48?


__________________
John

100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.
JTL is offline  
Old 05/28/2018, 08:37 AM   #14
JTL
Registered Member
 
JTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Venice Island, FL
Posts: 2,541
I messed with the spread sheet for the 16/32 but really would like one for a 24/48.


__________________
John

100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.
JTL is offline  
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:02 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.